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Wednesday, 17 March 2010

Why You cannot Trust Any Preacher Who Has Ecumenical Connections

Edited 12 Dec 2010
I have found something VERY interesting in all the research I have done (so far) on individuals and organisations. Please see the bottom of this post for my method of research (if you query how I get this information).


What I have discovered is that ALL those supportive of anything ecumenical tend to all associate with Catholics and teach that Catholics are part of the church. They generally speak well of the pope. They tend to appear and preach at ecumenical meetings and work tirelessly to promote unity across all denominations (including the Catholic church). Please see this shortcut link Why The Catholic Church is Not a Christian Denomination  which shows why we should not associate with Rome. Rick Warren is a major player (in this respect) in these days.


I am for and not against encouraging unity across fundamental, evangelical, protestant churches who "stick" to the Bible as our final authority, but ecumenicalism (of our day) doesn't do this. It associates with Rome, New Age and all sorts of other "experiential" christianity.
Edited 12 Dec 2010
First see my post on this older shortcut link Ecumenical Christian Organisations and New-Age Christian Organisations To Avoid   and then click on the links listed within that article for even more information.    If a preacher is lnked to any of these, then he probably has catholic and/or new age connections and is probably supported by the Vatican, but certainly has
historical Babylonic Religion connections.

We are in terrible times. It is VERY difficult to know who are true shepherds and wolves in the preaching arena. Even in Paul's time he had to warn believers to watch out for false teachers. Even those who say the right things about the apostate church seem to later recant and get on the ecumenical train.


For example I supported Josh McDowell, only to find that he occasionally teaches at "promise-keepers" events, which is wildly ecumenical. I wrote to him asking why he supports ecumenical movements. The full contents of  our correspondence can be found within the "comments" section within this shortcut link

The Promise Keepers Movement is Dangerous. Watch Out For It!   He simply replied I appreciate P.K. but am not a supporter or activist”. Surely that is the same as saying he supports ecumenism?.  Subsequently I have found that he has signed on to the Ecumenical "Manhattan Declaration". So, who can we trust?  Actually, we cannot put our trust in ANY man. Jesus taught us not to put our trust in man but rather in God.

That includes me,  because I will get things wrong (at times) but always check out what man says against the Word of God. Be a Berean and check the scriptures daily to see if what is being said is true.   So I would say that if a teacher/preacher shows himself to be ecumenical or new age, avoid them or at least be wary, taking what they say discerningly and checking it out.


Mind you, I have found that even ecumenicals can be a source of useful information and facts but BE WARY because there may be poison mixed in.



When I research I do 3 things:
1) I like to look up the person's own website to see what they teach. Specifically if they are ecumenical.

2) Check out their organisational connections and those they associate with

3) find out what reputable sites have to say about them

I start by doing google search on the person's name, to find their website.

I then search again by typing that persons name adding the words "ecumenical" or "false teachers" to see what others say about him/her. I only read comments from the sites I trust. So  that I can trust these sites I do the same style of research on these sites, also.

I then replace "ecumenical or false" with say "moriel" to see if they have any info.

14 comments:

Wary said...

Hello John
If you get the opportunity, could you please check out this link. It’s a ‘mega’ AOG called ‘Robinswood’ or the new name of ‘One church’.

Under the heading “About One Church Life” there is ‘listen again’ to hear how they preach. There is something called ‘ARK’; and they support ‘Street Pastors’ and Alpha etc. Simon Jarvis and his wife are the main pastors.

I shall say no more, but would be so grateful for your opinion.
Thank you

http://www.onechurchgloucester.com/

John Chingford said...

Hi Wary, Thanks for asking my opinion

Ok, I have surfed their website as thoroughly as time allows, just over an hour.

These are my observations:

I didn't find anything on Alpha but (although they don't mention it) their jargon is very "purpose Driven" which makes them ecumenical or new ageish.

Here are a few of many quotes on the website "we are determined that you become all that God has intended you to be", "our universal purpose, our unique purpose" and "where you are equipped to serve and where you will find your niche"

These are their 5 stepping stones (no mention of repentance or salvation)
"5 stepping stones:
Welcome – Come and meet us
Member – Come and join us
Gifting – Discover where your talents lie
Ministry – Discover where can you serve
Mission – Discover where you can go

again very purpose driven sounding.

I could not find their specific statement of faith but they did give a link to the general AOG one.

I listened to a sermon on "one community" less than 10 minutes long followed by that terrible music and appeal designed to stir peoples emotions. If 10 minutes is the usual length of sermons then what do they do for the other 1 hour 20 minutes? I guess "experiential and entertaining stuff".

The sermon recommended the use of "poverty and justice" bible which uses CEV. I tried to find what versions the church generally use but could not find. I guess they probably use the CEV.

From my research it looks like the CEV is a very poor translation designed for children and the uneducated, so that they can read it. Yeh right!

I think my next post will be on clearing the tables of the money changers. You know, the main purpose of all these new versions is to make money from the temple of God by marketing the bible in different ways (regardless of whether they water it down or not).

How would Jesus react to such phenomena?

The ARK thing is weird. Jesus said do not let your right hand know what its left hand is doing. To do good works secretly. They shamelessly display all their individual good works. Yuk!

Actually, this AOG is no different from the AOG I used to go to. It seems to be the trend amongst AOG and many other churches nowadays.

On the face of it, some of the "works they do or promote" like street pastors are okay (in themselves) as we are called to do good works to care for the poor etc, but is their emphasis preaching the true gospel or simply "loving people into the kingdom" without preaching about sin?

To me everything about them seems "wishywashy" too afraid to offend or make enemies. None of us want to make enemies and we are called to live at peace with all men but our message (not the way we present it) is offensive to many whether we like it or not.

Therefore, we MUST preach the TRUE gospel without concern for the results and leave the results of the message to God. This is being a faithful servant by being faithful to the preaching of the true gospel.

John Chingford said...

By the way, I forgot to mention my first realisation that they were ecumenical. The sermon used Mother Teresa as an example of how we should worship ie by serving the poor.

Those who are ecumenical often quote so called Catholic saints like Mother Teresa, St Francis of Assissi or the pope.

Why use catholic saints (who do good works to "earn" their salvation) instead of true believers like say George Muller who acted out of love BECAUSE he WAS "saved" rather needing to do good works to earn his salvation.

Those who quote catholics have either missed the point or are subtly trying to convince us that catholics are part of the church.

Anonymous said...

i wonder why you didnt say you pray first and ask God to speak to you whether what you are searching if of Him or not..

Seems it is you alone, on your "own" research or knowledge all that you are posting...

John Chingford said...

Hi Anonymous,

Jesus stated that we should not publically declare our good works and that our giving should be in secret. He said when we pray do it secretly so that you are not doing it in front of men but to the Lord. Obviously He is referring to private devotions (not the public prayer meeting).

For this reason I will never state in public about my personal and private prayer life and my personal and private relationship with Jesus.

However, am very happy to CONFESS publically that Jesus is my Saviour and Lord and that I belong to Him, giving my testimony, but NOT about my intimacy with God.

Not like some who shamelessly declare their prayer conversations with the Lord and what God says to them (seems every 5 minutes they get a Word from the Lord).

I cannot say what their motives are for this but it seems like they do it for self-gratification so that you will believe that they are from God and that you should listen to them because they have a WONDERFUL relationship with God.

Look, I do not intend to judge (only God knows the intentions of the heart) but "be real" even the apostles did not hear from God anywhere near as often as some of these so called apostles/prophets hear from God. It seems every 5 minutes, and what these guys say is frequently unscriptural and is often nonsense!

All I will say is that I do not write anything without giving much attention to it, first.

What I write is NOT based on MY opinions. I write what I know to be true from evidence collected together from many trustworthy sources.

It is not just me saying it, but many people. I am simply collating the information together. I also ensure that what I write is scriptural.

Please.... if I have stated anything which is incorrect or unscriptural I will be happy to be corrected.

My firm belief is that what I say is taken directly from the pages of scripture. If I am wrong in my Biblical interpretations then show me FROM SCRIPTURE only and not because you don't like what I am saying.

Please back it up with scripture always, then I will be very happy to modify what I have written and change my thinking to be alligned to the Word of God.

By the way (relating to your other questions - not printed here) please read my article about "not touching the Lord's anointed" to answer the question on why it is okay to criticise teachers who are involved in the ecumenical movement.

John Chingford said...

Hi Wary

I received 3 comments from you but am unsure whether you want me to publish them. Whenever you want me to publish simply say "please publish" or "do not publish".

The reason I am unsure is because you have given me your real name and the mail seems to be confidential.

I would like to publish some of it because you make some points I feel would be good to publish. Please write again just keeping the parts you want me to publish.

By the way, always remember that God always keeps a remnant of the faithful, like in Elijah's day (7000). It is just a question of finding them. Rejoice in the Lord always.

God bless

John Chingford said...

Hi Wary, re your comment about touching the Lord's anointed,

I saw your email but decided not to publish it under this title, but under my post entitled "Is It Sin To Touch The Lord's Anointed? What Does Bible Say?" as it makes more sense there. It is a good item, thanks

Wary said...

Hello John
I have been away for a much needed break and have been eager to get back to see your response.

What you have said totally confirms what I thought to be the case. I am alone in this situation and have been desperate for another opinion. I didn't want to believe it of them as my son and his family have rejected me completely when I warned them about it.

They see me as their enemy! I cannot express in words all the grief and sorrow this accursed movement has caused me. My husband has said he doesn't regard 'Robinswood' as a church, rather a youth club for social activities and I agree with him.

Listening to their preaching online has shown clear evidence of eisegesis, Scripture read aloud to back up an idea or event with no exegesis at all.

Like all cults that cause divisions in families, turning sons against the mothers and fathers they once loved and trusted to guide them into the truth. My son is now afraid to talk to me and levels strange , unfounded accusations against me. I have no doubt the enemy is keeping me from reminding my son of the true Gospel of Jesus Christ which is a stone of stumbling, a rock of offence. This weak 'other gospel' panders to human flesh.

I could go on and on but will end now. Thank you again for this desperately needed support, you have confirmed what I hoped was not true.
God bless, keep up the work against this wicked darkness.

Wary said...

John
I have just posted this on an Elim blog.

2Timothy 3:1-17
“This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come ...”

Robinswood A.O.G. is a Papist ecumenical pariah in Gloucester, preaching the social gospel of the latest end time heresy of 'Purpose Driven' and/or 'Emergent' so as not to offend the fallen.

It is teaching a modern Gnosticism, it is a cult that causes division between families who once used to love and follow Jesus Christ together as their Lord.

It is no more than a 'religious' social club of the liberal far left, having a form of godliness but denying the power thereof while practicing eisegesis; using Scripture merely to support its errant views.

They preach ANOTHER Jesus, ANOTHER gospel Galatians 1:6 “I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Vs.7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Vs.8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Vs.9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed”.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ, and Him crucified 1Cor.15:1-4 “... how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures…” is the ONLY way to win souls for the kingdom.

Jesus completed His mission on the cross when He said “It is finished”. This is not enough for Rick Warren’s franchisees like Robinswood A.O.G. ‘one church’, it is ashamed of the true Gospel, seemingly they see Jesus is incapable of doing what He came to do, so instead they preach a flesh pandering gospel instead.

The kingdom of God is not of flesh and blood, and it is built by JESUS who said “*I* will build my Church”. It is a heavenly structure, not an earthly one. Matthew 16:18.

NO ONE can even see God’s kingdom, let alone be a part of it, until they are born again. John 3:3. Unless born of water and the spirit, the unsaved cannot enter into the kingdom of God.vs.5 If the people do not believe earthly teachings about Jesus, they have no hope of believing heavenly things. Vs13.

It is unbiblical to claim the lost are seeking ‘purpose’, they have no interest in God “…there is none that seeketh after God …”. Romans 3:10-18. Robinswood A.O.G. one church is a structure of hay, wood and stubble, built upon a foundation of sand that was the original design of Jesuits in the Vatican to bring people back under the heel of Rome.

Robert H. Schuller started the social gospel edifice with his ‘Crystal Cathedral’; Rick Warren has developed it into its present franchise heresy, and false shepherds like Simon Jarvis have bought into its emergent, false grandiose apostate structure.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John Chingford said...

Hi Wary

I have also copied your latest post under my posting

"Ecumenical Christian Organisations and New-Age Christian Organisations To Avoid"

Joel 2 said...

I know the Pastor of One Church and have no doubt of his belief in scripture and the gospel of Christ and I know he is a man with a heart after God, seeking to lead a church that communicates the gospel to a generation where the church has generally failed to do so.

I appreciate your desire and passion for truth but I fear that you are confusing the church's style with its message. Just because something is done differently to how it was done in the old days does not make it wrong.

To call them Papal is hilariously absurd! By the Way - wouldn't it be great to think that there are some Catholics who genuinely know and love Jesus unto repentance and eternal life. More of that please Lord - especially cause the new Pope to have true revelation of salvation faith. Amen.

God bless you as you seek Him and His truth.

I look forward to seeing the fruit of salvation in the hundreds that I am sure you are effectively communicating the gospel to on a regular basis!!! I shall refrain from calling you Pharisees for the fear of falling into the same trap as you of setting myself as judge.

Matthew 7 ‘Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way as you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

John Chingford said...

Hi Joel 2

The things I wrote is based on my findings from the church's website. In fact, the things you have written confirm things even more.

There is NO catholic in the kingdom of God. To be saved, they need to be born again OUT of Rome, cease being a catholic and into His kingdom. In other words the mark of a true conversion is that they come out of the yoke of Rome and papal/babylonic religion.

To prove that this is not my opinion, please note this in 2 Corinthians 6:14-17

"Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?

What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? Or what does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said:

“I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.” Therefore, “Come out from them and be separate, says the Lord.
Touch no unclean thing, and I will receive you.”

Belial is another name for Baal which was the name given to Nimrod and his Babylonic religion. Everything the Catholic religion do is built on the basis of Babylon worship. To show that in much more detail, please check out all my articles related to Rome collated together under this url:

http://watchmanforjesus.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Catholic%20Info

More specifically please read the facts about the Catholic church under this url:

http://watchmanforjesus.blogspot.co.uk/2010/03/why-catholic-church-is-not-christian.html

The fact that you imply that a Catholic can remain catholic after being saved is unscriptural and confirms that your church is ecumenical.

Ian Francis said...

Wow, I loved so much of what you put forth in this blog but was freaked out a bit by your statement that "no Roman Catholic can be saved". Ergo, they must come out from the organization or they will go to hell? If I am wrong in this assessment of what you stated, please clarify. Having cut my teeth and basically grown up in the charismatic (NOT Word of Faith) movement, I've always been of the belief that there are Spirit-born Christians in all denominations, including the Roman Church. So you would be of the belief that Roman Catholics who profess a born-again experience into Christ are actually professing "false conversions"? Very interesting, as I have a mother who is elderly and has remained in the Roman Church, after coming to some kind of faith via her involvement in a charismatic prayer group back in the "70s.

I will seriously pray on this, as I have much respect for you and the effort you've put forth in this blog to warn this end-time generation. God bless you in all your Spirit-led efforts as well as encouraging others to be good Bereans in this last hour.

John Chingford said...

Hi Ian

The point I was making is that if a Roman Catholic becomes born-again (saved) whilst in the organisation the Holy Spirit will lead them out. If the person is not led out and still feels "comfortable" remaining in that darkness after a period of time, then it is possible they were never truly born again, because the Holy Spirit will never contradict the Word of God which states "come out of her".