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Wednesday, 5 October 2011

Has God Finished With The Jews And The Nation Of Israel?

Edited 6th October 2011 and 8th April 2012 (see edited sections below in bold)


Edited 8th April 2012
Just added a new article which can be used in conjunction with this article. Please click on: Truth About Christian Zionists. Response To Accusations


There are a growing number of evangelical Christians who TODAY are claiming that God finished with the Jews and Israel (as a Nation) almost 2000 years ago after Jesus (the Jewish Messiah) was crucified. In fact, most of European Christians believe this now. It seems that support for Israel has diminished throughout the World, with most support only coming from American believers. In fact, even hatred for Israel has infiltrated most European churches.

The claim is that Israel has been completely replaced by the church and that all Old Testament promises for Israel are ONLY applicable to the church.  Some even question whether the Jews of today really are Jews and claim that they are of the synagogue od satan. This article will address these issues and go on to prove that the Jews of today ARE Jews and that the OT promises for Israel ARE for the Jews and that God has NOT finished with Israel (the Jewish nation) as a Nation and that the Israel of today is TRULY the fulfilment of prophecy.

Who is the Jew?
Some  claim that all the Jewish women were raped by gentile Roman men in AD70 so no-one knows whether the children born were Jewish or gentile?  They suggest that the records were lost so no-one can be certain, anymore who the true natural Jews are.

If it is true that true natural Jews do not exist, why did God make so many prophecies regarding the Jews (in the Bible) regarding  the end times?  Zechariah refers to a natural Jew in chapter 8 verse 23

This is what the LORD Almighty says: “In those days 
ten men from all languages and nations will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say, ‘Let us go with you, because we have heard that God is with you.’ “

so where did they come from?

It is certain that God told us (through the prophets in many places) that He would bring the Jews back to the Land after desolations of many generations

Isaiah 61:4 And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations.

Israel were exiled for ONE generation when they were taken to Babylon. This states MANY generations. Israel were exiled again around AD70 and were exiled for the best part of 2000 years. They returned again in 1948 in which the Land was in desolation, but since 1948 the desolation of many generations has seen the Land become fruitful again. So 1948 was the fulfilment.

Some say that the current nation of Israel is a political mistake and that the leadership in Israel were all part of the Illuminati/freemason conspiracy.  Firstly, is God in control or not?  If  Heaven is His throne and the Earth is His footstool (with Jerusalem as the place of His rest) then God will intervene – no such things as political mistakes if God has the ultimate control. So whether the masons were involved or not, GOD was involved!  Anyway, why would God say that He would bring the Jews back to the Land if He knew that the Jews would cease to exist? Clearly God is telling us that THEY WOULD exist in the LAST DAYS.

Anyway, you need  to ask - was every single Jewish woman in Israel really raped by the Romans in 70 AD? Was every single Jewish male killed so that no more viable males existed? Actually, many Israelites were living in other countries (Diaspora) and would come to visit Jerusalem for the feasts. Furthermore,  Jesus gave clear pre 70 AD warnings for those in Jerusalem to flee. Multitudes did.

Even if it was true that most women were raped, does it really remove the Jew. Besides who is naturally Jewish in God’s eyes?

Back to the argument of some: in the Bible times a natural Jew was one born from a Jewish Father. After 70 AD (to a certain extent) there was a problem which needed to be resolved. As I understand it, the leaders (rabbis?) decided that whoever was born of a Jewish mother was now Jewish. So those born of raped women are STILL Jewish. I understand that problem ie  it is God who sets the terms - not rabbis.  However, let us now consider Ruth. Ruth was a Gentile through the line Jesus came, although her husband was Jewish.

Ruth chose to identify herself with the people of Israel "your people will be my people and your God will be my God".

Paul stated that a true Jew was one inwardly not outwardly, ie simple physical circumcision did not make them Jewish if their hearts were not attuned to God, ie if they weren't Jewish inside. So what makes them Jewish inside?

Paul talks about Abraham and his faith in God. Therefore, faith is an important issue. True Jews are those Jews (not Gentile Christians) who love the Lord their God with all their heart, mind, soul and strength and follow His commandments with a pure heart.

Edited 6th Oct 2011

This is actually quite complicated for me to express clearly, but I will try!  I will just sum up by saying that anyone who chooses to be a Jew and identify themselves with the Jews and love Israel, like Ruth (who was later, I believe, considered to be Jewish because of her statement) can say "your people are my people and your God is my God" are probably considered Jewish by God.

However, that could mean that all of us Gentile Christians (who identify in that way) would also be Jewish, wouldn't we? NO!



I believe that it is the non Christian Gentiles (who join themselves to Israel) and show that love (for Israel) by following the Torah and getting circumcised are Jewish, but not Christians, although we ARE spiritually Jewish because we have been grafted into the Olive Tree. I believe REAL identification and BECOMING Jewish is much more than having a love for and identifying with Israel. I believe it is a radical life change by virtually being Jewish.

Of course as Christians we no longer need to become Jewish to be part of God's people, but for the non Christian gentile they WOULD have to become Jewish, if they want to become natural Jews because they cannot be spiritual Jews if they are not Christians.



Just to clarify (because someone has already misunderstood me). I am not saying that the Jews are already the people of God and a gentile becoming Jewish saves them. NO! I am not saying that. A gentile may become Jewish but he/she still needs to accept Jesus as their Messiah to become a child of God. I am simply trying to point out the many ways that God preserved the Jewish people as a people.


Also, when we consider the all-time global hatred against the Jews, who else would be foolish enough to claim to be Jewish but the true Jew!

So I firmly believe that those who are Jews today are the very same ones that the prophets were prophesying about who would be restored to the Land Of Israel. “God is not man that He should lie”. If He said He will restore the Jews back to the Land after MANY generations from ALL corners of the World – not just from Babylon, then you can be sure that He has done EXACTLY that.


Here's some stats from a must see short video:


The question is:
Who is blessing Israel, a nation that is hated of all nations [just like the prophecies said], and being pressured by the nations through the UN to divide the Land [warned against according to Prophecy]??

Certainly not Satan, who hates them the most, and is rallying the world against "Israel"!

Certainly not the Illuminati, the UN, or for that matter, not a single nation can claim credit or account for "Israel's" phenomenal stats!

Who, then, is blessing Israel?


God’s Promise Of The Land To Israel



This is applicable to this topic we have been pursuing. Please check it out, especially the scripture verses.

This is what that article currently says (although changes are always possible later):

"To whom does the land of Israel belong to?
The answer is really very simple. God gave the land of Israel to Abraham (Genesis 17:8) and to his descendants through Isaac (Genesis 26:2-5) and Jacob (Genesis 28:1-4,13-14).
That means the land belongs to the descendants of Jacob, whose name was changed to Israel. In other words, the land belongs to the children of Israel, referred to in the New Testament as the Jews (Romans 1:16).
Some immediately protest this claim by arguing that the Abrahamic Covenant has been abrogated either by the Cross or by the disobedience of the Jews. But the Bible clearly teaches that the Abrahamic Covenant is an everlasting one that is still in effect (Genesis 17:71 Chronicles 16:17-18Psalm 105:8-11; and Romans 9:4).
As to the effect of the Jew's rejection of Jesus, Paul specifically addresses this question in Romans 3. He asks a rhetorical question:"What then? If some did not believe, their unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness of God, will it?" For almost two thousand years the Church has answered this question with a resounding, Yes! But Paul answers it differently. He says, "May it never be! Rather, let God be found true, though every man be found a liar..." (Romans 3:1-4).
Further, Paul states in Romans 11 that the disobedience of the Jews has not nullified the promises of God to them, "for the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable" (Romans 11:29). God's promises are going to be fulfilled to a believing remnant (Romans 9: 27). In fact, in Romans 9:4, Paul specifically states that God's promises to the Jews are still valid.

Two Land Covenants
What most people do not know is that there are two Old Testament covenants pertaining to the land of Israel. The Abrahamic Covenant gives the title of the land to the Jews in perpetuity. A later covenant, the Mosaic Land Covenant — or Canaan Covenant — of Deuteronomy 28-30 defines the conditions for possession and enjoyment of the land.

This latter covenant is often referred to as the "Palestinian Covenant," but that is a misnomer, for the land was never called Palestine until after the second Jewish revolt in 132-135 A.D. At that time the Romans dubbed it "Palestine" to erase the memory of its Jewish heritage and to insult the Jews, for Palestine is the Latin word for Philistine, the ancient enemy of Israel.

Let me illustrate the role and relationship of these two covenants with a modern day example. Let's say you buy a car for a child of yours and put the title in the child's name. But you explain to the child that there are conditions for using the car — such as no speeding. And you warn your child that a speeding ticket will result in the loss of the privilege of driving the car for a period of two weeks. If the child gets a ticket and you lock the car up in the garage for two weeks, the car still belongs to the child because the child's name is on the title. But the child has temporarily lost possession of the vehicle.

In like manner, the Abrahamic Covenant (about 2,000 B.C.) gave the title of the land to the Jews for eternity. The Canaan Covenant (about 1,250 B.C.) defined the terms for possession and use of the land. Title and possession are not the same thing. The Jews have lost possession of the land from time to time, but they have never lost their God-given title.

The Canaan Covenant
The Land Covenant promised that Israel would become the prime nation of the world if the Jews were obedient to God (Deuteronomy 28:1,13). But the covenant warned that many curses would befall the people if they were disobedient (Deuteronomy 28:15-37), including exile from the land (Deuteronomy 28:38-57). The covenant warned further that if temporary exile did not restore the Jews to obedience, they would suffer worldwide dispersion and persecution (Deuteronomy 28:58-68). But nowhere are they told that their disobedience would lead to a loss of their title to the land.
In fact, the Land Covenant ends in chapter 30 with a prophecy and a promise that a day will come — after the Jews have experienced the curses of the covenant — when the Lord will restore them to their land once again: "The Lord will restore you from captivity, and have compassion on you, and will gather you again from all the peoples where the Lord your God has scattered you. If your outcasts are at the ends of the earth, from there the Lord your God will gather you, and from there He will bring you back. And the Lord your God will bring you into the land which your fathers possessed, and you shall possess it"(Deuteronomy 30:3-5).

For almost 1,900 years the Jews wandered among the nations and suffered severe persecution, just as prophesied in Deuteronomy 28. During that time, their land became desolate as prophesied in Deuteronomy 29. But in this century, God has regathered them from the four corners of the earth, re-established them in their land, and transformed their land from wilderness to milk and honey — as prophesied in Deuteronomy 30.

The only prophecy left to be fulfilled in the Land Covenant is the spiritual salvation of the gathered remnant (Deuteronomy 30:6-8). That will occur soon when they repent and accept Yeshua as their Messiah.

The Abrahamic and Land Covenants make it clear that the Jewish people have both the right to the land of Israel and the right to be back in it today."

Does God change His mind?


Of course not! Can His Word be trusted? Of course!

In Jeremiah 31:35-37

"This is what the LORD says, he who appoints the sun to shine by day, who decrees the moon and stars to shine by night, who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar— the LORD Almighty is his name:  “Only if these decrees vanish from my sight,” declares the LORD, “will the descendants of Israel ever cease to be a nation before me.” This is what the LORD says: “Only if the heavens above can be measured and the foundations of the earth below be searched out will I reject all the descendants of Israel because of all they have done,” declares the LORD. 

The above verses are CLEAR evidence that God will still fulfil His purposes for Israel as shown in Roman 11:28-29 

"As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable"

The promise is to the Jews from Jeremiah 31:31:

"The time is coming,” declares the LORD,  “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel  and with the house of Judah." 

That prophecy is NOT concerning the gentiles or the church. It specifically states "the house of Israel and Judah combined. Ezekiel chapters 36 to 39 states that God will bring the Jews back to the Land in unregenerate and unrepentant hearts first and then convert them later. Zechariah chapters 12-14 discusses the nature of the conversions. Please read Ezekiel 36 to 39. It clearly states that God will give them a heart of flesh later on. What we see in Israel now is the first stage in God's plan of Israel's redemption. We see the physical resurrection of the Land and the people back to its former glories, becoming fruitful again. Next will be Tribulation, Then the spiritual restoration of the Jews. Jesus returns when they FINALLY say "blessed is He who comes in the Name of the Lord".

Also consider that God knows the end from the beginning. God knew (before the foundation of the Earth) that He would choose a people (the Jews) that they would continuously rebel against Him, that they would reject Jesus and that He would exile them for two thousand years etc. Yet He STILL made those EVERLASTING promises. God DOES NOT change His mind regarding His promises. As stated above, His promises are IRREVOCABLE. God NEVER said that He would wipe out the Jews totally, but that He would ALWAYS reserve a remnant. We are told that only a third of the Jews (in the Land) will survive the Tribulation. These are they who will be converted spiritually.

To say that all the OT prophesies must refer to the church is to make nonsense of His clear promises to the natural people and requires much twisting of the scriptures and allegorising of the simple reading of the text, ie eisergesis instead of exegesis. In other words, it is rationalising using our flawed human brains to reinterpret the clear words of God. We would be using newspaper exegesis, ie we are using current events or public opinion to interpret the Word of God. Quite honestly we should apply "do not be conformed to this world (ie its thinking, attitudes and values) but be TRANSFORMED by the RENEWING OF OUR MINDS.   If God said it, then we should accept it. His thoughts and His ways are far higher than our thoughts and our ways.

I would like to add that Paul was specifically referring to Christian JEWS not  about Gentile Christians in Romans 9:1-8. He NEVER stated that natural Jews were irrelevant as being Jewish.or being truly Jewish. He was simply stating that natural birth PLUS faith was required to be a true Jew. Therefore a true Jew still needs to be one NATURALLY as a first step to qualify as being Jewish. A completed Jew (natural Jew AND spiritual Jew combined in one person) is the Jew who has received Jesus as their Messiah. That was the whole crux of Paul's message. He then went on to explain that God continues to have a remnant of Jews who WILL choose Jesus as Messiah and be saved. However, before they are saved they are unsaved, unregenerate. Conversion does not take place at natural birth. Therefore, these Jews (who are chosen by grace [not the ones who will not believe] ) are true Jews BEFORE their conversion because they are to be saved later, ie are of the elect. The same is the case for the final generation of natural Jews. A remnant (third) of those who return to the Land in unbelief will be saved when they call upon the Lord.

Going back to the opening question: "does God change His mind?" Sometimes (to our human minds) it may seem He does. For example Ninevah. However, God KNOWS WHAT HE WILL DO. He never changes His mind over what He will do. He knew that the Ninevites would repent. Sometimes God's promises are conditional and sometimes they are unconditional. If it seems God has changed His mind it is because His promise or judgement was conditional. However, the final promises regarding the future glory of Israel, the Jews and the Land are totally unconditional. Here is an example Ezekiel 36:22-24:

"Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD, “It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for My holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you went  I will vindicate the holiness of My great name which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst. Thenthe nations will know that I am the LORD,” declares the Lord GOD, “when I prove Myself holy among you in their sight. For I will take you from the nations, gather you from all the lands and bring you into your own land."

No indication here of conditions, no mention of repentance. But ....... there is mention of God making them holy (by His own hand) in the subsequent verses. First is the gathering, then later the cleansing, then later receiving the Holy Spirit. 

"Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols."

God SAID IT, it must therefore come to pass (and it is). God's promises regarding Israel is totally dependant on HIM not on the Jews. It is unconditional and IRREVOCABLE


Here is a shortcut link to an article which shows that God has done amazing and things MIRACULOUS things to restore the Jews back to the Land. Anybody who denies these miracles and continues to preach that Israel is a political accident, are deliberately closing their hearts and minds against GOD which is an incredibly dangerous thing to do. Look at what happened to Pharoah when he hardened his heart. Here is the link:Present Day Israel Is A Nation Of Miracles, Created By God. The Overwhelming Facts!

You may also like to read this following link:

What The Olive Tree of Romans11 Represents and How it Speaks of God's Plan For Israel and the Church


8 comments:

John Chingford said...

I have had to make some changes because I have been misunderstood. So have clarified things. I was accused of believing (like John Hagee)in dualism. Please see the edited section (in bold) which clarifies that everyone Jew or Gentile needs to accept Jesus as their Messiah in order to be saved and become a child of God.

RomaLynn said...

Interesting that this came up somewhere else recently. Romans has so often been misunderstood I think.

and remember throughout the RCC time and even the reformation, they taught and believed in replacement theology, that God was done with the Jews.

At least that is what I see in my studies of the history of the church. Ok so, now still many people think that the people there are not truly there by the will of God and his power, many do. I have debated quite a few of them.

They just do not see it due to their lifelong teachings. But this is what Romans 9, 10, and 11 are all about to me.

RomaLynn said...

Part 2

Romans 11

1I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

2God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

3Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

4But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

7What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

8(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

9And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:

10Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

11I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

12Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

13For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

14If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

15For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

16For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

17And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

18Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

RomaLynn said...

Part 3

19Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.

20Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

24For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

29For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

30For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

31Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

32For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

33O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

34For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?

35Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

36For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

Thanks John

deceived no more said...

Excellent work, brother John! It's sad that so many people in Reformed circles have bought into replacement theology. The great reformers didn't go far enough and brought replacement theology with them instead of leaving it behind.

Good job.
dh

RomaLynn said...

Thanks, deceived no more, agreed.

Tommy said...

Its amazing how so many so called christians can accept the old testament Israel but not the new testament Israel despite the old testament prophets from Israel predicting by the Holy Spirit the new testament Israel - the rebirth of Israel and regathering of the jewish people to Israe. I've seen people on youtube deny that the jews are jews and I inform that someone best tell the Lord cos if thats the case He's brough the wrong people home.... the devil is a liar folks, Israel and the Jewish people are there just like the bible said they would be, amen.

John Chingford said...

Thanks Roma, Deceived No More and Tommy for your responses.

Tommy I agree with you. It is amazing how the people cannot understand the clear scriptures which show the return of the Jews to the Land.

Actually they cannot see it, because they have chosen to "spiritualise" and "allegorise" everything away.

Those of the "preterist" camp are the worst believing that all the OT prophesies were fulfilled once Jesus set up the church.

I challenged them to explain Zechariah 12-14 verse by verse, but instead GENERALISED the whole chapters.

It is frustrating! How do you convince people who allogarise the whole text, not reading the clear message, which is obvious that it is literal.